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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Holy shit, what a day.

My buddy (his name is Christian, by the way), busted out on the first table. I however, took first. When it was down to two people, I offered a split, but the other guy had just won a pot and wanted to keep going. I took him down in two hands (more luck than skill at that blind level, but hey.) A sweet $240 after tipping the dealer and "refunding" my buy-in back. I have to say, it was really fun, especially since there were 10+ people watching us play.

Christian and I played 3/6 and got killed, mostly by Tom and the typical Limelight crowd playing junk hands and winning. Tom capped his live 6 at 15 preflop with 74o and flopped trip 4s, taking down a guy with JTs who made top pair... that guy was PISSED. I mean, punching his fist into his other hand and flexing his muscles (which he looks like he works on a bit) in rage. Christian was much more conservative, limping in if he could, folding to a raise on marginal hands - he folded ATo several times in EP and showed me! The guy has discipline. I'm down a rack and a half, Christian's down $60, and we decide Capitol's a better idea.

Total at Limelight: $+30 (+$240 -$150 -$60)

We get seated around 1am. I win the first hand I'm in when KK flops trips - and it holds up (!). I'm up about two racks in as many hours. Christian's having a run of good hole cards mixed with bad flops. I watched as he got AK, AK, and AA get cracked IN A ROW. AA cracked gets $35, so at 3/6 it isn't so bad. Not 5 minutes later I hear his dealer yell out "thirty-five! Aces beat!" He got AA cracked AGAIN! Damn, dude. Nothing more memorable happens and he loses and I cash out when the game breaks around 4am.

Total at Capitol 3/6: +$100 (+340 -$100 my buyin -$140 christian's buyin)

I decide to play some 4/8 with the $100 I just won for the hell of it. That's when things get wild. I remember winning the first hand I was in, and I remember color changing for 1 rack of yellow ($500). When the morning began to get going, things started to suck though.

Most memorable was the guy in the 5 seat. What a retard. Older guy wearing suspenders who thought he was the shit. I've got 34s in the BB. So of course, I am in. Flop comes all black, 5sAsAc. I've got an inside straight draw, inside straight-flush draw, and baby flush draw. I bet, guy calls, shithead raises, fold around to me, I re-raise for information, flat calls on both. 3 players. Turn comes 2h. Ok, straight. But it's also a scary card because A2 and A5 are legitimate hands here. I check, MP bets, shithead raises, I rereaise, call call. Huh. Shithead says, "spades aren't coming!" I say, "My hand is made." River is a Q that wasn't a spade. Well. Hmm. I bet, MP calls, shithead raises, I make a crying call (pot was huge at this point), MP calls. Shithead turns over QQ. Wow. MP has an A, obviously, but didn't fill up. Either this was the most intelligent play I've seen all night, or the stupidest. Either way, it cost me a decent chunk of a stack I built up to $800 out of $100 which was profit from 3/6 anyway.

Very next hand. I won't bore you with the details, but I turn the nut straight with T9 against an 8756 board - which is nice, because you want someone with 9 only to bet and raise, right. 4 people are calling caps on the turn. Well, the third club falls and I'm rivered again. I steam away another $40 in chips and go have a smoke.

Part of it is my own fault. Suited connecters had been very, very playable all morning long for me (45s flopping 555, for example). I failed to switch my style up when the texture of the table changed. But the other was just the bullshit other people started playing. I stuck around for a couple more hours, folding everything except premium hands and folding when my premium hands didn't hit. I finally cashed out, my mood soured.

Total for Capitol 4/8: +$230 (+$350 -food and cigarettes -my buyin)

Incidentally, do you guys ever cover eachother? Christian and I usually play $100 cover and I've got another friend who does this with me. I think it's a -EV situation unless you can find someone who's at your level.
 

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You're complaining about people making bad calls with QQ when your playing stuff like 45s and 9Ts? lol. I totally understand your frustration about being rivered but thats the beauty of limit poker.. especially at the 3/6 and 4/8 level ya know?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
shiz said:
You're complaining about people making bad calls with QQ when your playing stuff like 45s and 9Ts? lol.
Are you serious? I guess it's back to Super System for you. Pay attention to your flops next time you play and see how many high card-only hands would win. Aces and faces only account for 16/52 cards in the deck!
 

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IMHO, in a limit game, 3 things dictate the starting cards that I choose to play.

In order of importance:

1. Position
2. Raised or not before I call
3. Number of callers

Really, if you're on the button and 6 players have called only 1 bet, then you would be correct in playing things like 65s and any pair... however, you would be making a HUGE mistake playing these things UTG or calling 2 bets cold with them. When calling 2 bets cold in a limit game, you had better be holding a big pair (99 or higher) or big cards, hopefully suited. Even calling with K10s, KJo, or QJo when it's been raised (assuming the raiser isn't hyper-aggressive) is a HUGE mistake and will cost you money in the long run... low-limit poker is a unique beast... check out Lee Jones' Low Limit Hold em or the new Low limit Poker book by Malmuth and that other guy...

Just my thoughts... seems like you guys have a differing opinion but are failing to take into account many factors when you attack the starting cards that someone plays...

-David "Kid"
 

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I guess it's back to Super System for you.
IMO, there isn't much in Super System to help the low limit player. Dolly's approach is geared for higher stakes no-limit games and, to be honest, I think you have to have his "third eye" to be able to play the style he describes.

Don't get me wrong - I love his poker "attitude" and try to get some of that "make 'em sweat" philospophy into my own game. But not in low limit games.

As the Kid stated, Jones's book is a much better guide for wading in the low limit pools and there area couple others that are geared more for those games as well. And despite my lack of regular success (maybe I'm not the best spokesperson for "by the book" play), I agree with Kid's assessment of choosing starting hands. Sure, you're going to get lucky once in a while, snapping off someone's big pair with crap like 65 or J3s, but in the long run it's just throwing money away unless the particular situation calls for it.

If you haven't, I'd highly suggest reading some of the theory books (Sklansky's in particular). Even if you choose to play with a different approach (and there's nothing wrong with that!) at least you'll know how many of the better players are thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I like Sklansky's Hold-em for advanced players, although it's slightly conservative for me.

I've found in most 3-6 and 4-8 games a preflop raise usually means any two paint cards, suited or not. In position, I like to play medium suited connecters even for a raise, because it's easy to put the raiser on the big cards (I dragged a bunch of pots last night doing that, in fact).

A lot of it depends on your post-flop play. I feel like mine is medium-strong - I usually know when I am beat on the flop - but if you make the wrong read, you're going to lose a lot of chips.

For example, I called a preflop cap with 34s against a guy I know raises any two unsuited face cards. I flopped top two, and long story short I lost when he turned over the flopped wheel. I definately put him on an Ace, but didn't expect a preflop cap with A5. I made the wrong read, and lost a lot of chips on that one.

I read right more than I read wrong, and thus far it's been +EV for me to play the connectors in position. YMMV.
 

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skadet said:
shiz said:
You're complaining about people making bad calls with QQ when your playing stuff like 45s and 9Ts? lol.
Are you serious? I guess it's back to Super System for you. Pay attention to your flops next time you play and see how many high card-only hands would win. Aces and faces only account for 16/52 cards in the deck!
Believe me I understand exactly what your talking about but your complaining about a guy with QQ calling you all the way down at a 3/6 table while your playing stuff like 45s. It sounds like you were playing just as loose as that guy (which is appropriate at 3/6 when theres a ton of people seeing the flop.) I wasn't doubting your style of play... I was just commenting on how funny it was that your complaining about other people playing as loose as you were.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
shiz said:
I was just commenting on how funny it was that your complaining about other people playing as loose as you were.
No, I understand what you're saying. What I am saying is that playing 45s preflop in position is nowhere near playing as loose as QQ to the river with an AA3 flop, suited at that. He's got 2 outs to fill up - every single other card beating him, and no way to tell if he's playing against Aces full already - but with the Aces paired I have no idea why he thought that was a wise play, and you couldn't possibly expect me to believe that's as loose as a play as 45s BTF.
 

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Actually he's got 7 outs to fill up.
Any Q, any A, and running 3's would fill the board which would have played in this case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quads said:
Actually he's got 7 outs to fill up.
Any Q, any A, and running 3's would fill the board which would have played in this case.
Actually, no. While you are technically correct about 'filling up', he has only two outs to win. We knew after the fact that the third player had an ace. Any A makes quads for him. Running 3s makes a smaller FH for shithead (3s full of As vs. As full of 3s).

Of course, this is after the fact, but I don't know how he could put nobody on an A between the two other players, given the action. He was obviously far, far behind. With two outs to win and one card to come, he's a 23:1 dog at this point. There has to be $184 in the pot for this call to be correct. I estimate about $120 in the pot at that point, making the pot odds like 15:1.

It was a bad beat, absolutely. That's poker, it happens, but his play absolutely amazed me. It could have been no more obvious that he was beat on the flop and turn. Bad beats I understand when the beater doesn't know how badly he's beat, but it was obvious that he should have folded.
 
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