[Ender]

In an attempt to "one up" Phoenix Casino's 10/20 limit game, Derby has announced that they will start playing 12/24 (1/2 kill) thur, fri, and sat evenings till whenever the action stops.

This will be the highest limit game in Sac, and promises to be lots of fun. With the affordable blind structure that Derby offers (kicks the crap outta Capitols), a good limit player should be able to hold his own. Derby has a lot of loose play at the higher limits, it seems, so if you don't get caught up in the madness and just play solid poker, this has the makings of a beatable and profitable game.

I'll update next week and let you know how the game looks once I've actually played. I'm a pretty regular 9/18 and 10/20 player, so we'll see what happens. No limit is always more fun, but I seem to be better at limit...

See ya around!

 

[Quads]

12/24?
Did 15/30 ever cross their minds?
That is an odd game for the Derby. But who knows, perhaps it will be a hit.

 

[Ace-in-Space]

My experience is that the 10/20 games anywhere are tend to be tight whereas 9/18 or 12/24 games are loose. The reason I surmise is that more chips make the pot look bigger even if those limits are similar.

Let us know how you do Ender.

 

[Hagar]

They also make for easier drops and tipping. Most players aren't (nor should they) tip $5 a hand.

 

[Ender]

All good points

Yes, you all make good points. Quads, Derby did have 15/30 for a brief time last year. I wasn't at that level then, so I never played, but I know that it didn't catch on and ended after a couple months. Personally (for game flow reasons), I think 15/30 with $5 chips would be better. But for reasons mentioned (Haggar on toking a $5 and Ace on bigger PHYSICAL pots), 12/24 will probably take better. The annoying thing is that we're gonna be playing with $2 chips. That's 6/12 chips... a big pot will have you racking hundreds of chips. Fun but tedious over time... that and the Derby's $2 chips are a super ugly pink with black stripes. Oh well.

Still, should be fun. Small blinds, toke $2 or $4 for a huge pot, and hopefully stack your chips in a giant triangle (my personal favorite for limit stacking). 5, 6, or even 7 deep triangles, and usually 25 chips high. Super architectual fun!

- David "Kid"

 

[Hagar]

I'm curious - how much money do you ususlly plan to "risk" when you step up to the 8/16 table?

When I thought about checking it out last week I was figuring on throwing $400 at the game, which seems barely adequate unless you hit a couple big hands real early.

If it's none o' my beeswax, just say so, I'm just wondering how much I should have in my pocket for a game like that.

 

[Quads]

I guess I'm curious to the person who will justify getting the scratch to sit down at a "$12/24" table and not a $15/30. $600 either way to sit down with comfort, either table. $500 would do fine if you played your "Hagar Ultra Tight" game. I'm curious if the Derby thinks they are playing themselves out of the market by opening a $15/30 table versus a $12/24 table.
I would love to hear their reasonson. I've even love more to have the people that show up for the game in one of our games.

It's 3 more dollars to the small bet.

Maybe I'm making a bigger deal of this than it is, but if a guy is willing to sit down at a $12/24, why would he not play a $15/30 game?

It's the same debate from $5/10 to $6/12 or $8/16 to $9/18.

 

[Quads]

Seeing that this thread was hijacked into "dealer tokes and tips" I split the topic to another one under Open Poker Discussion.
If you wish to reply regarding tips and tokes, please do so under the new topic. If you wish to add content to the 12/24 game at the Derby, this is the thread to do so.

 

[Ender]

I split games up in 3 levels...

Well I'm pretty sure I'm going to try and sit down in this game tommorow after work. I'm planning on $400 to start. That's 2 racks in a 6/12 chip environment. A little short stacked, but the blinds are small at Derby, and I'm a fairly tight (tight-aggresive) player, so that combined with the usualy loose play, I think I'll be alright.

Hagar, in answer to your question, to play the 8/16, you need a minimum of $200. Thats 1 rack at a 4/8 chip level, so if you catch a couple of hands and don't get mixed up in pots you shouldn't be in, you should do fine.

I guess I split limit games into 3 levels: Low (2/4-6/12). Medium (8/16-15/30), and Higher (20/40 and up). I know this is skewed, but it's right for me as a player. I don't ever see myself being able to play a 100/200 or higher game, as there is always money at risk and I don't ever want to play with that kind of dough. Not to mention anything higher than what I play with now could be considered "playing with the rent check"... I consider myself a decent limit player, and $400 isn't that much, seeing as I'm not married, have no more student loans, and my rent is $350 a month. I guess enjoy it before I have to be a grown up with mortgage and kids and all that jazz.... Lol, how do you do it guys?? See ya' around!

-David

 

[Ender]

Quads, also a quick answer to how I feel about what you said. I'm not sure if people think there's a difference between 12/24 and 15/30. I consider it the same game... I bet most people, do too. I think it's more a matter of "Sacramento-ians" looking for the biggest game around. It's a game of one up by the casinos. Watch Capitol will announce 20/40 or something. It's all the same to a lot of these people. Money is meaningless to so many of the people that I play with... and they look at me funny because I value a chip more than they do... I dunno, but I'll be sure to post anything interesting that I find after I play this game... Gotta play it to see if it's a beatable game for my level.

-David

 

[Quads]

Agreed with your last two posts on all points, however my preference would be to sit down with a touch more than $400. I guess just personal preference. But, if you can sit down with $400 and catch a few pots, you are right were you want to be as far as chip stack.

Agreed also in that the $12/24 is effectivelly the same game as $15/30, and you hit it on the head. That's why I didn't understand why they jsut didnt got with a $15/30 game. the $12/24 game is the Derby trying to one up the Jones' (Phoenix with thier $10/20). Capitol will possibly try to do it as well and it will be interesting to see if they follow suit with a $15/30 or $20/40 game, which is the highest they can go. (County of Sac. says that the max bet on a poker table can be $49.00) and the Derby has a special provision against this which allows them to run thier $200 "NL"... errr... spread limit game.

I also agree with your spliiting the games into those three groupings, although, I might consider $6/12 a mid limit game depending on how aggressive the players are.

The problem with everyone trying to one up eachother is that the more mid and higher limit games there are in Sac, they run the risk of breaking the town. They did this a few years back when there were a few 20.40 and 15/30 games running. I know the Limelight is looking at starting a $6/12 game, so is Rancho's Club. The norm seems to be $4/8, but there has got to be a way to get a few more tables with $6/12 or even $5/10 games around. ($5/10 is prolly one of my absolute fav limit games, next to 6/12)

We'll see what happens on the tables with the stakes and for you when you hit that 12/24 game... "Gooo Luuu"

 

[Ace-in-Space]

I don't think dealing $15/30 or $20/40 is going to break anyone's bank for the players who could afford to play it. And it think there is a demand for this limit right now. I am not saying this game will be around the clock but enough players should get it going on weekends and weeknights. With inflation and rising real estate prices there should be plenty of people who are willing to gamble at this level. I have played with Derrick Martin the formal King at CC in $9/18. Of course you don't need to make $1M plus a year to play $20/40. If you are an above average player a bank roll of $20,000 should suffice if you are planning to play professionally at this level.

 

[Quads]

Two or three 15/30 or 20/40 tables in town will break Sacramento.
There are only a handfull of people who have the bankroll nad the skills to sit down on these tables. The popularity right now is what people see on TV and what they can get on a table with for the least amount of money. Hence an abundance of 3/6 and 4/8 games.

Talk to the card room owners who saw it happen in the late 80's and early 90's up until a few years ago when they recovered from it.

 

[Ace-in-Space]

I can probably agree to the point the casino owners here would probably want to shy away from $15 or $20 limits since they can get the same drop in the lower limit games without risking some players going broke. However, I think there is enough money in Sacto now to support the higher limit games without wiping out the poker population (keep in mind there are Bay Area transplants coming every day). These game may not continue not because of the lack of interest from the players but the owner's refusals to keep spreading it.

I would probably play in these games up to 10 hours a week if I don't have an 8-month-old baby. I played in the $9/18 game pretty regularly every weekend for quite a few years before 2004.

 

[Quads]

From what I've learned in speakign with Cardroom owners, research, etc. , yes, there is a great poker playing population here in Sac, however it still is not enough to support a few games at higher stakes over $9/18. It's simply the economics of poker in Sac. There isn't that much poker money here. I don't think that the card room owners refuse to spread it, it's more that they will not spread it as that isn't where the core of their business is, as that has a direct correlation to where the money is in the players.

 

[Ace-in-Space]

If you have talked to the insiders then you know better than me. However, I (as well as some other BYOCers) would benefit from updated information on the higher limit games available (such as the reports provided by Ender). I hope there will be a game when I am ready to playing regularly again.

Also, are there any local casinos (in Sac County) spreading any NL games? If there are games I would think it will be something like the $100 max buy in with $1-1-2 with a $4 bring in like Lucky Chances in B.A.

Finally, are there any B.A. casinos that have NL games with a slightly higher blinds and buy ins? I don't mean the $10-10-20 one in Lucky Chances. I would like to see something like a $300 to $500 buy in range.

 

[Hagar]

Also, are there any local casinos (in Sac County) spreading any NL games?

I guess you haven't reading all the posts.

Cache Creek and Lucky Derby spread NL games.

Cache Creek has a 1/1/2 blinds with a $4 bring-in and is true NL.

Derby has a 1/2/5, $5 being a true BB and is billed as no-limit, but actually has a max of $200 bet (some Sac. county requirement). So technically it's a $5-200 spread game, but for all intents and purposes, it plays like a NL game.

 

[Quads]

As noted in my earlier post in this thread:

(County of Sac. says that the max bet on a poker table can be $49.00) and the Derby has a special provision against this which allows them to run thier $200 "NL"... errr... spread limit game.

The Black Sheep in spreads a NL game which is in Cameron Park.
LC, Bay101 and most of the other card rooms in the Bay Area also spread a NL game.

What blinds are you looking for? Higher than 1/2 but less than 10/20? So, 2/5?

As far as talking to the "insiders" I wouldn't say I have "inside information" I simply have been able to have a lot of coversations with a handfull of the card room owners and dealers in the area.

 

[Ace-in-Space]

The 2/5 blind NL at Derby sounds about right. What is the rake or time charge?

 

[Hagar]

The 2/5 blind NL at Derby sounds about right. What is the rake or time charge?

Man this is bad - I didn't even notice. I'm pretty sure they're droppiong the button $1 for the Jackpot and I think it's $3 for the rake (but not sure).[/quote]