Dealer Tips

4078 Views 19 Replies 3 Participants Last post by Quads, Jan 10, 2005

Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · Jan 4, 2005

Regarding tipping:

1. I don't know if Hagar is being facetious but they use $1 chips for tipping at a $5/$10 game.

2. IMHO You don't need to tip more than $1 in any pot. The dealers make more than they should for what they are doing. Strangely, if you go to a very high limit game the players DON'T tip at all.
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Quads

· #2 · Jan 4, 2005

The dealers make more than they should for what they are doing.

Right, they are paid minimum wage (a whopping 6 bucks an hour), and effectively make tips ONLY for their job. This is of course 'more than they should' be making.

Strangely, if you go to a very high limit game the players DON'T tip at all.

Right, when I visit Vegas and play the NL tables, the dealers never take tips in. What?

I have no idea where you are basing your statement on.
I often tip 3 or more bucks for a nice pot, even at $4/8 or $6/12.
In a no limit game where you drag a $400 pot, you think you can shell out a red chip for the guy that just pushed it to you?

Remind me, if I ever retire and take a job dealing poker, I'll take my break when you sit down at my table!

Hagar

· #3 · Jan 4, 2005

Anything more than $1/hand is rediculous. If you're feeling generous, go right ahead and fling them more. At $1 per hand, they're making $30-50/hr in tips plus whatever they are making in wages (which I agree is likely minimum wage). That's not good money for dealing? I've done it for a lot less.

They do no more or less "work" for a $500 pot than they do for a $12 pot, so tipping based on the size of the pot is silly, though many people do. Typically, the only time I tip more than $1 on a drag is if I've drug a couple blind steals that were so paltry that I would be tipping my entire profit. (I actually had a dealer throw a tip back at me when I tried tipping out of a small pot because she realized that she made more out of the hand then I did.) I try to get them that dollar back on a subsequent "bigger" pot.

Tip the dealer? Absolutley. But don't feel you need to tip more than $1/ hand most of the time.
I've read on 2+ 2 that some people feel that even less (.50/hand) is appropriate. It's hard enough to take money off those tables while fighting the rake and bad luck. If you start giving away an extra BB or 2/hr in tips, you really have to make a killing to take home any profit.

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Quads

· #4 · Jan 5, 2005

You and I tip differently.

I like to keep the dealer who keeps pushing me pots taken care of. I think it's good carma perhaps. I give him a little love, the planets align and the poker gods don't get pissed off at me.

Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 7, 2005

I tip maids $2 per day when I stayed at hotels. I tip bellhops $1 per bag. I give people who service me at X'mas time. However, I think the poker dealers in California get too much tips. Do you really think dealers deserve to make $50-$60 an hour doing a job with no heavy lifting?

As a rule I have seen lots players who play $40/$80 and up not tipping dealers at all. Whereas the player in lower limits have no problems tipping dealers.

G

· #6 · Jan 7, 2005

I tip when I leave a table. If the dealer never entered my head then obviously they've developed the craft and are doing their job so they get a tip from me. If they were an obstruction, noticeable or got in the way of my game at all then I'll think about it.

Job type does not a tip make as far as I'm concerned. It's service and performance that gets me reaching into the wallet as a show of appreciation.

Hey Ace, next time I'll help you put the table up or help you carry stuff out to the car. I could always use a couple extra bucks.

Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 7, 2005

Sorry. You won't get a tip from me but help yourself to the chocolate.

G

· #8 · Jan 7, 2005

I am with bigdog on this one. My tips come from service...period. If I drag a nice pot I will throw him/her a tip. If he/she doesn't acknowledge the tip (i.e. "Thank You") then he/she gets nothing the rest of the time. Tips are extra income for a job done well. They deal cards and pay attnetion to the action to make sure everything goes smoothly. If they complete their job and do it in a professional/cordial way then they get tipped.

Hagar

· #9 · Jan 7, 2005

Don't make the mistake to believe that dealers are getting paid too much on their wages. Minimum wage is probably the most that dealers are getting outside of tips.
The reason that I don't like the "tipping by the size of the pot" concept is that the dealers have no influence (at least they better not) over what's happening on the board. They are truly just messengers and referees. If you like the supersticious route (homage to the poker gods for a big pot) then go right ahead, but it is uncalled for.

Unless a dealer is particularly unsociable, rude or other wise non-accomodating, you should try to fling them a little appreciation. I guess we all have our way of doing it, but stiffing them is pretty rude in my book. If a dealer is uncompetent, then let the house know - taking it out of the dealer's tip does not fix a bad dealer - it just makes them grumpier.

Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 7, 2005

I don't think it is unfair for the casinos to expect the players to subsidize their employees.

Quads

· #11 · Jan 8, 2005

Agreed. Hagar-
A rude, unfriendly dealer gets no toke from me.

Hagar

· #12 · Jan 8, 2005

I don't think it is unfair for the casinos to expect the players to subsidize their employees.

It's no differnt than any other industry where tipping is substantial part of "server's wages. Restaurants, hotel service, etc. It's just the way it is.

In a poker room, if they paid the dealers "enough" to get tipping out of the loop, then the rake would be much higher.

Quads

· #13 · Jan 8, 2005

In a poker room, if they paid the dealers "enough" to get tipping out of the loop, then the rake would be much higher.

Exactly!
The would start charging a seat fee on top of the rake.

Welcome to the economics of poker.

Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 9, 2005

Really? You think places like Capitol Casino needs to gross $400 per hour on the average 24/7 just to make a small profit? Or the oil sheiks in OPEC need to sell crude at $45 per barrel so the harem girls don't starve? Or, Adam Sandler's getting some $20M per film or Shaq getting some $15M a year (Yes, I understand that they don't get to keep it all but it is still quite a chunk of change after everything is taken out). It's simply supply and demand baby, Econ 101--you charge as much as the market can bear.

On the other hand, if purely based on economics the casinos in Vegas should not have any poker rooms since they could make more money putting in slots. In fact before the current poker craze many poker rooms had been inactive for a long time. Ironically, the dealers in Vegas don't seem to make nearly as much as their counterparts in CA.

Hagar

· #15 · Jan 9, 2005

On the other hand, if purely based on economics the casinos in Vegas should not have any poker rooms since they could make more money putting in slots.

You're right. The $100/hr or so that casono's drop on each table doesn't mean squat to the casino. That's like losing money to them. The only reason they even have poker rooms for people like you and me is because they expect that we're going to bring our friends and spouses with us to help fill up other house-edged portions of the casino. Don't believe for a second that they care one little bit about us poker players.

My point relating to the tipping theme of this thread is this: If the poker players didn't subsidize the dealer's salaries, they wouldn't spread any games at all (at least in a place like Vegas). If you owned a big casino and you could make 10x money with slots in place of poker tables, would YOU go out of your way to accomodate us lowlife poker players?

Quads

· #16 · Jan 9, 2005

Ironically, the dealers in Vegas don't seem to make nearly as much as their counterparts in CA.

Ace,
I have no idea where you get these points from. How do you figure a dealer in Vegas makes less in tips than a dealer here in (for example) the Capitol Caino or any other in Ca.

In regards to another point:

The only reason they even have poker rooms for people like you and me is because they expect that we're going to bring our friends and spouses with us to help fill up other house-edged portions of the casino

If you do the math, (lets take the Derby for example)
1 table, 25 hands / hr, populated with players 18 hrs a day.
Drop $4 per hand.
Generates $100 / Hr
Open 18 hrs a day
$1800 / day / table
7 tables running generates
$12,600 a day in rakes / all tables open.

Calculates to $378,000 / month, Gross profit.
Subtract your CGC licencing fees for each table ($2500 / table / year) and your rent / overhead of roughly 25K / month.

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Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 10, 2005

Quads,

From my experience players in Vegas tip less than players in CA. If you just play in Bellagio only you don't have a true feel what a typical poker game is like in Vegas. What I mean is that Bellagio, at least the in smaller games, are very touristy so they behave more like CA. The less popular casinos are loaded with locals so sometimes you see them tip something like 50 cents instead of even $1. You very seldom see players tipping $2, 3, 4 in those places.

Also, what Hagar meant (and what I meant on the earlier post) is that Vegas casinos can make more money per s.f. for the same space if they put in slots. And H also pointed out why they want a "loss leader" to attract poker players. Non-Indian casinos, in CA, does not have that choice.

Furthermore, you really made the point for me by using the Derby example. You can see how profitable running a casino is. Therefore, they can afford to pay their dealers better.

Finally, I am not saying you shouldn't tip the dealer (I almost always give $1 to the dealer per pot as a tip). But if every time you drag a $100 you tip $2-3 it is a little excessive.

Perhaps I should start playing online then I don't have to worry about these issues.

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Quads

· #18 · Jan 10, 2005

From my experience players in Vegas tip less than players in CA. If you just play in Bellagio only you don't have a true feel what a typical poker game is like in Vegas.

I don't know what gave you the idea that I only play or have only played in the Belagio.

You can see how profitable running a casino is. Therefore, they can afford to pay their dealers better.

McDonnalds made a millions upon millions net profit last year. The burger flippers are still making minimum wage. Walmart is the same. So is any other industry. there is a reason people are paid cetrain amount and those amount cap in job trades. It's Econ 101.

You very seldom see players tipping $2, 3, 4 in those places.

Correct. YOU see players [tip] differently than I do.

Ace-in-Space

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jan 10, 2005

I am simply try to point out Bellagio is not the same as some other local Vegas poker rooms. If you infer that I meant you play in Bellagio only I am sorry. So we are agreeable to my point that typical Vegas players tip less than the ones in CA?

Well, as far as the dealers' making minimum wage there is an expectation of tips to supplement the salary, or else it will be hard to find people who want to deal. However, McD and WMart employees know up front what they are going to get. Do you think flipping burgers or stocking shelves is easier than dealing cards? (Granted teenagers are not old enough to work in a casino.)

My main point is that the dealers can earn enough a comfortable living for the job they do if players just tip normally.

Quads

· #20 · Jan 10, 2005

So we are agreeable to my point that typical Vegas players tip less than the ones in CA?

No, I don't agree with you on that. You see it much differently than I do and I still am in question on what information you have to back up such a statistic.

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