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  #81  
Old 01-13-2017, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

My thread, my bump.

Almost eight years ago, my man cave bathroom was completed. Things were good.



A month ago, I'm standing over the toilet when I noticed a bit of drywall bubbling just above the baseboard. Not good, I think. A finger press reveals things are a bit spongey so it's time to investigate.

I pop the baseboards and, looking straight down, I find black on some surfaces. Not good at all.



So I pull the toilet and peel back the lino and it's pretty bad.



Bad enough that it permeates under the shower pedestal, meaning I have to remove it completely to get under it. So I spent part of my Christmas break and this past week I took off carefully disassembling the shower, laying out the parts, making notes about how it was installed, removing the drywall and the false walls behind it, then the pedestal itself, and finally everything down to the concrete. The hardest part wasn't the demo itself but keeping the rest of the house clean while doing it.



For the sake of sharing, I think I know how it happened: I bought a toilet flange spacer kit to bring the flange height up above the new subfloor but, upon breaking things down, I found there was nothing between them or the original flange. I didn't know then that there should have been a gasket between each layer to prevent any splash-back or seepage from occurring. That, and a standard wax ring instead of a double-thick one may have contributed. The plywood and DRIcore was saturated and expanded right around the toilet area and was fine everywhere else. The PT plates on the exterior walls are surface black but don't seem soft and sound like good wood so I'm letting it dry out for a few days.

The plan is to not use the DRIcore product this time but to install vinyl planks: I'm thinking they're flexible enough to handle the ridge in the concrete and if there is another water leak, it won't rot things out. This time, no extender should be needed as the vinyl will probably fit under the existing flange (which was warped and has to also be replaced). I might like to try a concrete leveller but I'm not sure it can handle a 1.5" fall over 4' yet (still researching).

One reason I continued this thread is because I also discovered something... weird. Next to the toilet's pipe, there is this painted ABS cap covering a pipe which I *thought* might have led to a back-flow valve but, upon removing the cap, there only seems to be (lightly damp) crushed rock some 16" down there; no sewer smell at all. Although I don't want to dig around without some reason to, part of me thinks the plumber screwed up and it's just a dead stack.



Any ideas from the collective knowledge base?
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  #82  
Old 01-18-2017, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

Sorry, cant help with the bathroom problem. I just joined the forum here and came across your build. Gotta say, very nice job! Good luck with the bathroom.
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  #83  
Old 01-19-2017, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

Thank you. I just came from your thread and thought we had somewhat similar space and layouts so it was nice to see another style I could have done.
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  #84  
Old 02-21-2017, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

So the mystery tube appears to be a mistake and will be covered. No other news on that front.

The floor rebuild went as well as expected: DRIcore tiles cut to fit, offset seams, and shimmed to get it true and take out the worst of the unevenness. Rebuilding with DRIcore similar to before was considered acceptable: everything remained the same height off the ground, it allowed me to not cut back the shower drain stack, and it let me reuse the shower pedestal I built to level the shower pan.



The first row of tiles also showed me just how poorly set the original waste stack/flange was. The edge at the right is even with the flooring; at the left, it drops a good 1/4" and makes it difficult to make a good seal. So two solutions will be implemented.




The first is to use an Oatey Twist-n-Set flange to get a proper fit on the surface of the finished flooring. It has enough play in it that it should be the best solution, short of cutting up the concrete to remove the old stack to reset a new one that's level. The one drawback is that it reduces the outlet flow from 3" to 2.5" but I'm considering installing a "No Dumping" sign to combat that possible issue.




The second is to use a Perfect Seal toilet wax ring that can accommodate not only a height issue with the flange to the horn but the bowl movement (pun intended) associated with fat-assed poker players. Once compressed, wax will not cover a gap if the toilet moves, a situation I think was a contributing factor in my problem here.




So the floor was covered with two sheets of sanded 3/8" ply to lock down all the tiles and give me a nice surface for the finished flooring: 8" wide vinyl plank (already purchased but those images will come after installation). With the subfloor done, it was time to rebuild the false walls behind the shower.




Because I'm paranoid and didn't trust my re-measuring skills this time around (I made a lot of dumb cuts doing the floor tiles), I wanted to ensure the walls were going to be returned to where they needed to be: I placed the shower pedestal and the shower pan, attached the threaded drain cap to center it, threw in two scraps of drywall as spacers, then pulled the stud walls up tight and tacked them to the floor. After removing the pedestal and pan, I then set the walls plumb and locked them down, tying them into their neighbours.



Of course, another puzzle involves resetting the shower valve and head outlet and math helped a lot more here.



Finally, all of that extra effort made up front in setting the walls right paid off when it came to installing the drywall, which was done without any real problems. I'll add that the brown edge to the pedestal is due to trying out a textured paint as an alternative to linoleum. It was not to our liking so I sanded it up a bit and will be going to grab some scrap lino somewhere to do the top and side edges again.

The fun new-to-me part begins: I get to mud and tape all these corners. First time ever because I paid a guy to do that magical art when I built this man cave. I'll buy a few larger trowels, some paper tape and premix, and fire up This Old House videos, I suppose. How hard could it be?
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  #85  
Old 03-26-2017, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

Change of plans: the previous image showed cuts to the far wall across the middle of the inset. I realized that was going to be a pain to level out so I cut it back to above the inset. Then I realized I needed to find a cross stud to screw into and that was halfway up the wall so I ended up cutting all the old drywall out of the far wall and replacing it. I had a full sheet extra, I wasn't going to return it, I didn't feel like storing it, and so the inset and around it was replaced and now seamless.

The guy I paid to mud and tape my whole basement was worth every damn dollar, and no one will ever tell me otherwise.

Doing the first layer wasn't bad: slap on some mud, lay in the corner tape or corner bead, some pressure to squeeze out extra and set it in place, then slap some on top. Boom. Done.

The other coats? The finesse required to not screw up an inside corner meant I bought I corner knife. The steady hand and swiftness required to do outside corners without having excess curl up and stick to the other side meant I did one side of an outside corner first, let it dry, then the other side. And to even run the knife from floor to ceiling with consistent pressure and without hesitation? Pure art. I took forever to do this tiny bathroom. I'm glad I didn't have the ego to think I could do the whole basement.

In the end, things got feathered out quite nicely. I used an inside corner knife, 6", 10", and 12" knives, and my pinky with two plastic 1" and 3" knives for that damn inset in the wall.

Didn't have to knock down too many high spots, perhaps due to the excessive effort feathering. Wet sanding for the win. Things are smooth and ready for primer and paint this week.

Hindsight lesson: I didn't cut the corner bead around the inset to meet at 45 degrees because I was too quick to get started on the straights. Meant an extra few coats to fill the empty gap, that's all.

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  #86  
Old 03-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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Looks great. Good documentation/pix.

Glad to see there's still a few old-timers around this place...
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  #87  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

I may take forever to do a thing but I won't leave projects (or threads) unfinished.

Painting was simple enough and the edges are feathered so nicely into the existing painted surface that Wifey is happy.

For the face of the riser, I cut a measured length with one level edge for the bottom and left a good inch or so uncut for the top. Adhesive laid, lino placed, rolled, and let sit overnight. I was then able to take a long blade and drag it across to top edge, giving me a perfect result.

Doing the top of the riser requires a stiffer stencil than the butcher paper I had been using so I raided my art supplies for card stock paper (I had a lot of unused pink for some reason). To get the curve, I simply ran a finger over the edge to crease the paper, cut along it, then did a few test fits and trimmings to get it just so. Hopefully, I get a good cut on the lino itself.

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Old 03-29-2017, 05:20 PM
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Looking good! I need to get back to my shower in the master.... like you they take a while. Keep up the good work
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  #89  
Old 04-02-2017, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

Top lino installed; no reason to cover the whole space, really. Created a jig to get the curve for the floor boards going down.



The first board at the back was pretty easy to cut and set but it determines how square the rest lay so measuring to the opposite wall is probably a good idea in such a small space.

Each new row began with me marking the curve to a second sheet and cutting it, taping that sheet to the left-most edge of a board, and using a marker to ink the cut side. If I made a mistake, I could move a bit to the right and try again (but I didn't; just a few trimmings to fit better). Cutting is simply free-hand scribing, lightly at first, then with a bit more pressure as the cut guides the blade (I could have jigsawed it like the full circle for the waste pipe but I wanted slow, smooth cuts). After cutting halfway through, you can snap it: I used long nose pliers to give a slight bend along the length of the cut, then again to a deeper angle, until the first split begins. The rest follows suit and you get yourself a cut on a curve.

Assembly required pulling the floor away from the far wall to get enough distance from the pedestal to angle the new row in. And because the rows are so narrow, they had a tendency to slip with respect to each other each time I moved things so I taped the seams to prevent that until I got to this last curve-wrapping row. The toilet flange screws pretty much locked things down in that corner after that.



The final floor. Wifey approved. Without the curved pedestal, it would have been trivial but it took me most of a day working around that curve and only a few casual hours to do the rest. Annoyingly, I had to take one board from a new box just to finish the threshold (about 40"x6"). Oh well.



Now I get to put everything back.



I did the floor baseboards, re-tasking some from the ceiling to replace those that were water damaged or needed to be recut due to imperfect shower wall placement.

The toilet was an interesting story. My (very) first attempt was a wax ring which leaked at the back within a few flushes but that was because I rocked it into place. Dumb move. I tried the waxless ring (which has a mini wax ring on the flange side) but even when stepped down (through a removable piece), it was forcing the toilet to sit too high off the floor. Feh. In the end (and because there are no pictures), I reasoned things out this way:

- the toilet over the flange without a seal sits fine
- there is some left-right wobble, none forward/back
- wax will compress once but not rebound
- dry-set the toilet, shim to prevent wobble
- tape bowl to mark shim placement, tape floor to mark footing placement
- prepare over-height shims to rest the toilet on before setting it down
- affix wax to horn in the usual way, set toilet on high shims, place proper shims
- the wax has grabbed a bit but there's play left for aligning to tape marks
- pull high shims (interestingly, it doesn't drop fast; the wax holds it up)
- GENTLY straddle seat and sit to fully seat the wax

Had a small leak from the holding tank, probably through all the handling it's been through. Got a bit of a turn out of that side's anchor bolt and no more leak so hopefully that's good.





I've got two shop towels laying on the floor to watch for drips or leaks because I'm paranoid. It caught one small leak from the hand-tightened toilet connector, fixed with plumber's tape. Been flushing it once in a while for the hell of it, too.

Sink is back in place, too. I always try to leave as much of the original stack behind as possible. Since I had fitted the original drain assembly, I can cut anywhere: an inch and a half of clearance lets me slip all the parts up the tailpiece so I can get them into place and cement them together.



The shower? That's going to be even more fun.
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  #90  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Trann's Man Cave

Four day weekend? Why, yes, I'd like to rebuild that shower laying all over my floor.

When I disassembled it, I put the small parts into separate Solo cups to keep track of things: shower pan screws, outer wall screws, door handle and wheels, etc.. After the slow and deliberate rebuild process, I had four Robertson screws left over (all others were Phillips). Throughout the build, they never really had a place and, in hindsight, I'm an idiot because I didn't take pictures at each stage. I'm *really* hoping I accidentally threw them into the mix by mistake

The water's back on and no leaks to be found (yet).



As a sidebar, there used to be a whiff of sewer gas on a regular basis down here because of my poor toilet flange installation on the original build. Since the rebuild, it's been odour free. Learn from my mistakes, people!
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