Mini Bulkhead

[Trann]

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, an animated one should be worth a bajillion...

This is a profile of the basement ceiling joists, the outside concrete wall, and the interior studwall, vapour barrier (red) and drywall (purple).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/PMC/bulkhead.gif

Note: the stud wall pictured is a floating wall: 2" short of reaching the floor joists and pinned with 6" nails. I wouldn't use it to brace against because, should the floor shift more, the structure would either break or lift the floor joists.

Before: The problem lies in the fact that were I to mount the ceiling track (C-channel for the perimeter) to the existing joist, there would be a (max.) 2" gap between it and the finished wall. I need a means to fix that up and this is the solution I came up with:

1) Sister a 2x6 to the joists, run either the full length (overkill) or fitted vertically, spaced every 24" o.c. for the ceiling track.

2) Rip 2x4s to fit the gap, leaving 1/4" - 1/2" space to the finished wall and attach with screws into the joists above and to the sister 2x6.

3) Brace it all with 2x4s every 24" o.c. and to give the ceiling track a new mount point.

After: drywall the mini-bulkhead and attach the ceiling track.

...

I tend to over-analyze things and this may be complete over-kill so I'm looking to see if there's a simpler approach to the over-engineered one I have here that I may have over-looked.

Over and out.

[huge1s]

do you want the bulkhead? Is your wall already built? If you would rather do without the bulkhead and just need something to attach your wall to, why don't you just rip some 2x4 to put in between your joists and nail the top of the wall to it? this also gives you something solid to anchor your ceiling drywall.

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maybe I am misunderstanding the problem.

[j p frog]

Hey Trann.....no updates lately...what's the deal???

[Trann]

do you want the bulkhead? Is your wall already built? If you would rather do without the bulkhead and just need something to attach your wall to, why don't you just rip some 2x4 to put in between your joists and nail the top of the wall to it? this also gives you something solid to anchor your ceiling drywall.

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maybe I am misunderstanding the problem.

Only a wee bit. To answer the questions you pose in order:

- I don't really want the bulkhead but it's the only solution I can see right now
- yes, the basement wall is now permanent
- no, the bulkhead here is decorative and meant to cover a gap in the ceiling; it only needs to support itself.

The ripped 2x4s between joists are doable for the ceiling mount but the gap is between the last floor joist and the rim joist. It is unaccessable because of both the minimal clearance between the last joist and the concrete basement wall and because of the vapour barrier I've since added.

I could simply rip 2x4s down and screw them into the last floor joist so that they stick out to cover the gap. The reason I'm wary of this idea is that there's only one means of support: the screws into the joists. My overly-engineered idea also has the sistered 2x6 to rest against and attach to.

I'm still open to ideas as this is a "finishing" project and can be done anytime before I start on the ceiling.

...

JP, the updates will come. I've got pictures after the mudding and am painting right now so it's nothing exciting enough to post.

[huge1s]

How about doing a 45 degree angle on the drywal instead of creating a box? I had to do this in my basement (wall to wall...not ceiling to wall) and it turned out pretty good with a nice finished look. Just take some 1x2 and cut them with 45 degree angles on both sides and screw them into the wall and the joist. That will give you something to anchor your drywall on.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj219/myersd08/wall.jpg

The red is the drywall.
I would put the 1x2 with the 2" horizonal.

[huge1s]

depending on your layout...you could also put some small can lights in the 45 degree wall if you wanted to "fancy it up" a bit....assuming you have enough room. You really don't need much to hold that small amount of drywall, especially if you use screws to hang your 1x2 supports.

You could also do this on your other walls if you want it to look even...could actually be a nice effect. Put some lights or molding on there....could be nice.

[Trann]

I'm afraid I missed detailing a point in the original problem: the walls are floating. That is, the top plates are not nailed into the floor joists above as you might expect but are about 2" short and pinned into the floor joists (or 2x4 bracing) with 6" nails. As the floor heaves (or drops), the wall slides up and down on the nail.

I can't use both the wall and joists to brace any build. However, I didn't think to build up against the wall... there may be more support there with the top plate and 16" oc studs to work off of... hmm...

[huge1s]

Well, you will have to check code.....but logically a floating wall that heaves or falls is going to wreck the drywall anyway...so I don't see a problem with the 45 degree supports. You may have to put some additional 2x4 bracing (horizontally) to have something to nail/screw those 45 degree supports into though. I had to do this when boxing out for air returns in my basement.

By the way, I know you can float walls on top...but I have never seen it done (mostly float on the bottom over a floor plate). I would think this would make drywall a lot tougher.

[Trann]

Well, you will have to check code.....but logically a floating wall that heaves or falls is going to wreck the drywall anyway...so I don't see a problem with the 45 degree supports. You may have to put some additional 2x4 bracing (horizontally) to have something to nail/screw those 45 degree supports into though. I had to do this when boxing out for air returns in my basement.

By the way, I know you can float walls on top...but I have never seen it done (mostly float on the bottom over a floor plate). I would think this would make drywall a lot tougher.

Code? Wassat? 8)

The floating wall movement won't wreck the drywall because it doesn't go all the way to the ceiling: there is a gap at the top between the drywall and the floor joists that will be hidden by the drop ceiling (and a bit of baseboard trim). There is no drywall ceiling in this equation. (Aside: my buddy did a drywall ceiling and there are popped seams and crushed corners all over the place. Clay soil is a bitch.)

It's common around here to float walls on the top for some reason. The wall is constructed on the floor -- bottom plate pressure treated; I also fell in love with finger-joint studs for their lack of bows and twists -- then the wall is stood up, squared up, and anchored into place: ramset concrete nails into the floor and 6" spikes into joists above. You can shake that framing and it won't budge. I know mine didn't.

As for floating at the bottom: I built the two walls around my stairwell floating on the bottom so that the drywall would run continuously from the upstairs. In hindsight, the whole basement could have been done the same but I don't know how I'd hide the gap at the floor as easily as I can at the ceiling.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/Reno/100_0185.jpg

Of course, one feat of engineering is the way I handled the partial wall. Note that the 6" nails are driven horizontally here: the partial wall and the full bottom plate rest on the floor while the full wall is attached to the ceiling.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/Reno/01500010.jpg

Whoa.

Thread drift.

[huge1s]

Suspended ceiling....all right, i thought you were drywalling the ceiling as well. So if you are doing a suspended ceiling and the gap is only 2"....I don't see the problem. If it is the suspended ceiling that I am thinking of (grid with panels), you will easily drop 2" just to put the tracks in. You have to have room above those panels to get them in and out.

[Trann]

Suspended ceiling....all right, i thought you were drywalling the ceiling as well. So if you are doing a suspended ceiling and the gap is only 2"....I don't see the problem. If it is the suspended ceiling that I am thinking of (grid with panels), you will easily drop 2" just to put the tracks in. You have to have room above those panels to get them in and out.

Ah, once again, I am a man of unpredictability.

I have a product that hangs 1" from the floor joists to support the ceiling tiles.

http://www.ceilinglink.com/cm_how.jpg
Props to ceilinglink.com.

The perimeter will use a C-channel which is also attached to the ceiling, rather than an L-channel to the wall. The suspended ceiling will be fully independed of the walls.

The gap I need to cover is between the last floor joist (and thus, the perimeter edge of the ceiling) and the outside wall. Allow me to re-reference the animation, best seen in the "Before" frame:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/PMC/bulkhead.gif