Building Permits. Are you pulling them?

[Quads]

For those of you that are building / expanding an area to make your 'man cave', are you pulling building permits, or sneaking your work in 'under the radar'?

Say for example you're finishing a basement. At which point and with how much major or minor amount of construction are you considering when pulling a permit.

Discuss.

[Aust1227]

I don't bother... I should, but it is more work than it is worth. But, at the same time, I live in the country, so I dont have many building officials just roaming around...

[Quads]

I don't bother... I should, but it is more work than it is worth. But, at the same time, I live in the country, so I dont have many building officials just roaming around...

What have you done that you say you "should" have?
(off the record of course)

Obviously there is a line there of yes, "should" but didn't.
Just trying to figure out where people are drawing that invisible line.

[Oz]

Depends. When I finished my last basement - all the electrical and plumbing were done during the construction of the house - so all that was needed was sheetrock, paint and trim = No.

If I was pulling new wire, or doing something which would change the structure - Yes.

However, when I do the electrical for my deck and waterfall pump - No.

[Aust1227]

What have you done that you say you "should" have?
(off the record of course)

Obviously there is a line there of yes, "should" but didn't.
Just trying to figure out where people are drawing that invisible line.

In the garage I pulled a new 220 circuit, and installed a AC unit. The AC unit was just a window unit, so that did not need a permit, but the 220 should have had one.. Oh well...

I also did a four zone irrigation system for garden. Some areas you need an irrigation inspection, some you don't.. Here we do, but I didn't bother..

[Quads]

In the garage I pulled a new 220 circuit, and installed a AC unit. The AC unit was just a window unit, so that did not need a permit, but the 220 should have had one.. Oh well...

I also did a four zone irrigation system for garden. Some areas you need an irrigation inspection, some you don't.. Here we do, but I didn't bother..

Agreed on those.

[mikeneron]

Taking all the old stuff down = NO
Running new plumbing and electrical and moving electrical = YES

[doughboy63]

My neighbor is a plumber, so plumbing = no. I know he is doing it right and it is not worth the trouble. Next spring I will rewire my 80 y.o. house. I have not decided whether or not to do this myself yet. I need to educate myself more, and get a few bids. This work will be permited. But when I frame the walls and pull the circuits for the basement, I wil prolly skip the permit. When I did my back patio, should have pulled one, but didn't

[Oz]

There are those items that are stupid when permits come into play, such as a sprinkler system or a fence. JM2C

[Shadow]

I didn't pull one for anything. Plumbing for the bar - no. Electrical throughout the basement - no. Ran a 30 amp line to the garage for a trailer/RV hookup - no.

[Guma]

I didn't pull and to be honest when I was doing it I never even thought about it. Only thing really was 3 new electrical circuits went in.

I was more worried about the HOA seeing and saying something about turning my garage into livable space, which is specifically forbidden according to our HOA Rules.

[Aust1227]

I didn't pull and to be honest when I was doing it I never even thought about it. Only thing really was 3 new electrical circuits went in.

I was more worried about the HOA seeing and saying something about turning my garage into livable space, which is specifically forbidden according to our HOA Rules.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.... That was close.. You almost got me started on HOAs.. Please don't do that again!!

[Guma]

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.... That was close.. You almost got me started on HOAs.. Please don't do that again!!

Get rid of those rain barrels!

[Aust1227]

Get rid of those rain barrels!

They are gone.. I replaced them with an irrigation system. Which, BTW, I did not pull a permit for.. HA! I got one over on the man!!

[vtpoker]

sinners...

[Irish]

My town is ridiculous with permits, you're technically supposed to pull one for just about ANYTHING (changing a switch or outlet? you're supposed to get a permit :roll:). I typically don't pull them unless it's something major that will change the description of the house when I go to sell it (4 to 5 bedrooms, finished basement, etc.) or I hire a contractor and have to.

That being said, I know what I'm doing. I read up when doing electrical work, all my shit is grounded and wired to code, all the pipes I sweat are done correctly, and I know my limitations and when it's time to call a contractor. I wish the handyman from hell who owned my house prior pulled permits, because he had no clue what he was doing, and I've been fixing his crap ever since I moved in.

[bigslickwood]

When we did all of our remodel work in Boise, the electricians that wired the hot tub, added outlets, etc. had a permit and it was inspected. The gas guy that ran a new gas line to the kitchen for the new gas stove also had one and was inspected.

We did not pull a permit for the sprinkler system, or for the 800 sq ft. concrete patio and cover, although we probably should have.

Don't know if one was technically required for things like replacing countertops, plumbing fixtures/toilets, etc. or not.

[Trann]

I see permits as nothing but a tax in itself and a means by which your home will get reassessed for property taxes.

Permits provide limited liability coverage when a third party is doing the work for you but when you're doing it yourself, it's unnecessary, IMO.

Now, building to code is another matter... structural changes that affect the engineered framework of the home, that sort of thing. Provided the construction is simplistic, it's easy to follow basic codes -- walls dimensions, insulation/vapour barrier minimums, outlets spaced N' apart and load per circuit, GFCI circuits, plumbing slopes and vent stack distances -- and I don't see a reason anyone can't do it.

[huge1s]

I have worked on hundreds of houses and I would say that one thing that permits do is ensure the work is done "mostly right". It is a real joy to come into a job that should take 1 day and finish 4 days later because some jackass did some work that was all wrong that you have to fix.

When I finished my basement, I pulled permits even though I know what I am doing. Mostly because I would end up having to pull them again when I sell the house (and possibly have to tear stuff down depending on how big of an A-hole the inspector is). If you know what you are doing, you really can start doing the work and pull the permits when you are ready for inspection instead of pulling them before you begin construction. Not that big of a pain.

[Trann]

That's another issue that's not on my radar: resale. If you have the slightest intention of moving on, there's all the more reason to have the permits on hand. Due dilligence is always full of win.

I bought a little house on the prairie and have no intentions of moving unless my kids boot me to the retirement plaza or I die. By then, no one will care what was done and it'd be easier to burn it down and rebuild on the property, I'm sure.

[Quads]

That's another issue that's not on my radar: resale. If you have the slightest intention of moving on, there's all the more reason to have the permits on hand. Due dilligence is always full of win.

I bought a little house on the prairie and have no intentions of moving unless my kids boot me to the retirement plaza or I die. By then, no one will care what was done and it'd be easier to burn it down and rebuild on the property, I'm sure.

Very good points.
one of the first thing they ask for in a resale is permits on improvements, and such.

[huge1s]

I helped a buddy of mine at work build a deck and he didn't want to pull a permit. I mostly just helped him design it, lending a hand on a few things. I didn't check code (probably his responsibility) and he went to sell his house a couple years later. I was over there pulling the deck apart and re-doing footers....... I think i spent about $200 bucks total on permits for my basement which included renewing them twice (I was getting my MBA, full time job and had two kids...it took a while). It would easily cost more than that if I had to pull permits after that face and tear up walls, etc to pass.

[zathras]

I asked my GC if I had to get permits or if he took care of that part. He said he did, so I didn't worry about it. He subcontracted out the electrical to a licenced electrician. Same with plumbing. I never saw a permit, but I take him at his word that he took care of it.

Last time I pulled a permit was to install my c-band dish at my old place about 9 yrs ago.

[IgotDANUTZ]

I live in PA and didnt get a permit for my basement or my 1500 sf paver patio i put in

[huge1s]

I asked my GC if I had to get permits or if he took care of that part. He said he did, so I didn't worry about it. He subcontracted out the electrical to a licenced electrician. Same with plumbing. I never saw a permit, but I take him at his word that he took care of it.

Last time I pulled a permit was to install my c-band dish at my old place about 9 yrs ago.

You should ask to see them. "take him at his word" is a bad idea. You should also be able to check regional building if you don't want to ask him directly...

[Mok]

When I (with /some/ help from my wife) designed our single story house, the floorplan was laid so that the basement stairway was "open" with a door at the bottom (instead of most ranch style houses with enclosed stairs and doors at the top) - the reason being was two-fold.

1) It makes the living space much larger "feeling" while not actually being bigger because of that open wall.

2) Since the SF of the basement is NOT included in the SF of the house from that standpoint, any time I wanted to finish the basement off, the design specs talk about the finished basement already, because of the stairway being completely finished all the way to the bottom, with a 4' wide by 5' long landing before the door. (yeah, all hallways and this stairway, 4' wide instead of the "standard" 3' - just makes everything feel bigger when you're in common areas)

So, my fortress of solitude had no permits pulled. Granted, I also was an idiot and didn't have them plumb or put a grinder pit in when I had the house built, which was DUMB - as now I wish I had one so I could put a bath down there.

[beachtrader]

You should pull permits for any electrical, structural or plumbing. I finished a basement (1500 sq) in PA and pulled permits for everything. Lucky I did as it saved me. Just as I finished (literally last coat of paint) we moved. The buyers claimed there was an issue with the plumbing which was done a month before. I received the final living permit for the basement which was done by the local township. Because I just had the certification by the building inspectors we were able to push back on this "claimed" problem the buyers thought there was when they did their walk through.

I know a lot of people who don't get permits and then when they sell they have to prove the work was inspected. The problem I have also seen is that if the work is already done, sometimes some building inspectors, after the fact, will ask for walls to be gutted in places so they can verify wiring and plumbing. It really sucks when you are selling a house and have some building inspector ask you to put holes all around the basement when the buyer will then ask you to fix them all ($ or time spent).

I have also seen this problem when people have hired others to complete the work. I had a neighbor who finished their basement. The contractor said they got permits, but they didn't. The owner of the house was semi-screwed years later when the contractor was gone and then they had to have the work inspected. In fact some of the plumbing was not up to code and it cost them thousands to rework it. If you have a contractor do the work, you must require a copy of the permit and inspections...

[Crackaddict]

Screw the permits, dude. If nothing you are doing is visible from the outside of your house, the last thing I would do is invite some jackbooted busybody into my domain to supervise my work. All you're doing with a permit is asking for a boost in your municipal taxes. Do you not think you're paying enough already?

I get a lot of satisfaction in hiding things from the government that should be none of their business in the first place.

[Trann]

Screw the permits, dude. If nothing you are doing is visible from the outside of your house, the last thing I would do is invite some jackbooted busybody into my domain to supervise my work. All you're doing with a permit is asking for a boost in your municipal taxes. Do you not think you're paying enough already?

I get a lot of satisfaction in hiding things from the government that should be none of their business in the first place.

Crack! I've been missin' you here, d00d. Good to see you found the place and dropping in with a rant! 8)

[Quads]

So what do you say when you go to sell your house and they ask "Do you have the permits, contractor, info, etc. for the _____ (electrical, plumbing, etc.) work done?"

Minor stuff, yes, agreed. No permit.
Otherwise, I'm wanting to have all my bases covered.

[Festisio]

So what do you say when you go to sell your house and they ask "Do you have the permits, contractor, info, etc. for the _____ (electrical, plumbing, etc.) work done?"

Minor stuff, yes, agreed. No permit.
Otherwise, I'm wanting to have all my bases covered.

Screw the damn permits.. I am converting my garage, including drywall, insulation, electrical, etc..

The city can go screw itself. They want a permit for replacing pre-hung doors and replacement windows, which do not even change the structure whatsoever...

If I ever do sell my place, it will be a private sale, cash up front, as-is, take it or leave it. If someone asks about permits, etc.. I'll tell them to take a short walk and GFY...

screw the damn permits.

[Quads]

I like your style.

[Directional]

Major stuff i get em. Otherwise no. Like, hooking my acreage power up to the pole, permit. Installing the septic system, permit. Building an addition on the trailer, nope. Renovated the bathroom, nope. Put in hardwood floors, nope.

[Crawland]

I'm putting in a couple walls and running some very simple electrical. No permit. Permits are a money grab by the city.

I got a permit for my deck because it is outside. The "inspector" drove up to my house, filled out the approved sticker in his car, walked to that backyard and stuck it on the deck. I don't even think he paused to glance at the deck.

[JumperJeff]

We hired a couple of contractors to build a bathroom in our basement. I wanted to make sure everything was done right especially since there's water and electricity in close proximity.

They said since the plumbing was already roughed in, and there was no structural work done (a non-load-bearing wall built and then drywall put up) the only permit we needed (if we wanted one) was for the electrical. My wife wanted to be safe and got one for the whole job.

The city took 2-3 months to issue the permit, by which time the contractors had come, done the work, and left. They took pictures of all the electrical and plumbing work though so if it gets inspected, we have some evidence.

For the rest of the basement, I'll probably get the electrical permit, and not bother with the rest. Same idea. No structural work will be done.

[IFLOPPEDITSUCKER]

If you finish your basement w/o a permit and later go to sell the house, an unpermitted area that hasn't been inspected could cause you problems. Same thing with a deck. It's a PITA, I can't stand county inspectors, but in the end, it IS supposed to be for the safety of the everyman.

[Scuba_Dave]

Too hard to build a 24x36 3 story addition without them noticing ;)
I've pulled permits for almost everything
Here it takes about a week for a permit to be issued

I have a stream on the property....so everything had to go thru Conservation Committee for approval
Town said they had no problem with what I wanted to do
But unless the paperwork was filled out & approval issued the State could at some point step in & make me tear it down

One guy decided to build a house in the woods on his property...bordered a pond
He was almost done when it was discovered
He was given the option of tearing it down, moving it back ~200'
OR - they would tear it down & charge him

I'm on a DIY site & there is always someone posting about an unpermitted addition that they might have to tear down
Or they are being forced to open up all the walls to have framing, wiring & insulation inspected

[Haps]

I learned my lesson 10 years ago when I tried to sell my house with no permits for improvements. From now on I'll get permits because that was a huge hassle I don't want to deal with again.