DPMS AR-15

[wthompson]

Not sure if this is allowed here but how about I post a link to another forum where firearm sales are allowed:

DPMS A2 HB carbine- DFW FTF - AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=782082)

Regards,

Wayne

click link for new price!

[Wedge Rock]

Nice. Too bad its FTF in DFW only...

[Redneck Rebel]

Good luck with the sale.

[wthompson]

Nice. Too bad its FTF in DFW only...

Wedge,

If you have a local FFL holder that will accept shipment of a firearm from an individual they would perform the transfer for a nominal (~$25) fee. I have purchased firearms online and had the dealer ship them to a local FFL holder and when it arrived, I went down and filled out the form 4473 just as if I was purchasing the gun from him. In fact that's how I obtained 5 of my 6 AR-15s. If you are interested in purchasing the AR, we can take it to PMs and work out the transfer stuff.
Here is some more info:

GunBroker.com - Help Center
(http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.aspx?FAQID=1118&NoCount=1)
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

Selling a gun across state lines [Archive] - THR (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-299417.html)

Regards,

Wayne

ps.

The firearm must also be legal to own in your state.... I can't sell it to you if you live in the PRC or New York for example.

[Wedge Rock]

You made it sound like you only wanted a FTF transfer... I'm currently waiting on my FFL to take delivery on a pistol I bought on the interwebs.

[Redneck Rebel]

Is an out of state online private party purchase required to go thru an FFL? I'm sure that's a dumb question but since I've never done it I figured I'd ask.

[wthompson]

Any firearm transfer across state lines must involve a FFL holder.

-Wayne

[JCinPA]

Those 'nominal' charges are going up. Around Philly it's averaging $50 now. And although it is perfectly legal to send a weapon from a private owner to the FFL in the purchaser's state (there has been no law change), the BATF has harrassed the living shit out of dealers for this and in the last couple years most dealers have started requiring that the seller also ship it through an FFL-- with another charge. It's really put a damper on Internet sales, even though they always involved a dealer doing proper checks at the buyer's end.

The BATF is completely out of hand.

[wthompson]

Those 'nominal' charges are going up. Around Philly it's averaging $50 now. And although it is perfectly legal to send a weapon from a private owner to the FFL in the purchaser's state (there has been no law change), the BATF has harrassed the living shit out of dealers for this and in the last couple years most dealers have started requiring that the seller also ship it through an FFL-- with another charge. It's really put a damper on Internet sales, even though they always involved a dealer doing proper checks at the buyer's end.

The BATF is completely out of hand.

I have not had a private seller send a firearm to my FFL but he only charges me $20 to transfer from an out of state dealer. He even has a web form to input the information for the selling dealer and he will fax his FFL within a day. The other cool thing is when I purchase a firearm from out of state, no sales tax! And for some of my purchases sales tax would be way more than $20. :mrgreen:

-Wayne

[JCinPA]

Is an out of state online private party purchase required to go thru an FFL? I'm sure that's a dumb question but since I've never done it I figured I'd ask.


Thought I'd give you a more detailed answer, Red. Federal Firearms transfer laws are standardized (of course) and set the minimum standards, but states may be more restrictive. For example, Federal firearms laws allow for face-to-face (FTF) transfers between residents of the same state as long as both are over 18 years of age and the seller has no reason to believe the buyer has a criminal record or is making a straw purchase. I live in PA however, and PA law says we cannot sell pistols FTF in PA even though Federal law allows for it. In PA, I can sell a long gun (rifle or shotty) FTF but not a pistol. Private pistols sales in PA have to take place at a licensed dealer or at a county sherrif's office where a National Instant Background Check System (NICS) (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics.htm) call will be made on the buyer and paperwork is completed.

Other states may require ALL sales of any firearm be done at a licensed dealer, or NO sales need be done at a licensed dealer as long as they meet the federal requirement. Any guns shipped so that they are not sold FTF by residents of the same state must go through a dealer.

So, if you go on an online gun store site like the one for Bud's Guns in Kentucky, they will ship it to a licensed dealer in your area where you go pick it up and get processed. The seller need not be a dealer, however. According to Federal laws I can sell you one of my guns, rifle, shotgun or pistol, but the onus is on me to find a licensed dealer in your area to ship it to. I cannot ship it to you directly, that's a federal felony. So say you see a gun posted by me on GunBroker and want to buy it. We arrange payment and terms between us. You tell me where you want to pick it up. I'll demand it be a stocking gun dealer with a nice website where I can see photos of their gun counter and see their address, and I'll coordinate shipping it to them on the phone and they'll call you when it arrives. If you want it sent to a pawn shop or small dealer without a website I can check, I am going to require they FAX me a signed copy of their FFL (federal firearms license) because it is incumbent on me, the seller, to ensure this sale is legal. The license has the address for the place of business, and I need to ship it there and to no other address. You go in for the checks and processing and get the gun.

The charge for the dealer to do this for you varies from a low of about $20 (the NICS costs $5 and they may charge that separately) to a high of about $50. Years ago, I did this a lot, buying and selling used guns and my favorite site, GunsAmerica.com used to have a listing of a gazillion dealers who would let me ship to them directly and costs were fairly standard at $20-25. Lately the BATF has been harrassing the shit out of dealers and the number of dealers who will do this has pretty much dried up, or at least dwindled to a small fraction of what it used to be, and costs have gone up to discourage traffic. So now most dealers want the seller to go to an FFL holder near them and ship through them. Technically I'm selling it to a local dealer who logs it onto their BATF record book, then they sell it to the dealer on the other end who logs it in from the first dealer and out to you. Although not necessary, this saves a lot of BATF bullshit and headaches. The BATF is simply trying to reduce the amount of private sales, and this effectively adds another $20-50 on the sellers end to the total transaction which often fucks the ecnomic justification for the sale in the first place as most private used gun sales are between $400-1,000. Adds from a low of 2% to a high of 12.5% to the transaction. If you like selling guns almost as a hobby, like I do, it pays to find a local dealer to do business with who will accept shipments from private sellers for you.

A couple of other wrinkles -- you know me, the TLDR king! :rolleyes:

About the "Gunshow Loophole". There isn't one. All federal and local laws apply at gunshows. For instance in PA, I have bought handguns at shows, and it has to be done through an FFL holder with all the paperwork and the NICS check. What gun shows do is bring a lot of folks together who can do legal FTF sales, so you'll see guys walking around with slung rifles with little flags stuck in the barrel saying "For Sale". Without shows, if I advertised a rifle for sale to a PA resident, we might have to drive across half the state to meet to make it legal. So anti-gunners hate shows because it facilitates gun transfers and they want to do all they can to limit that. Bear in mind they only limit folks who are conducting legal activity, the gang-banger who wants a gun doesn't go to dealers or gunshows, they traffic in stolen guns (or use a straw purchaser, which is also illegal). The idea that restrictions on legal gun sales can restrict criminal use of guns is childish fantasy, but the anti-gunners are either childish or have other agendas so they hate gun shows. Most non-shooters are very gullible so the anti-gunners repeatedly bleat about the "Gun Show Loophole" and non-shooters come to believe it is true, so the tactics work.

Another wrinkle is there is a second class of FFL, called the FFL-03 or 'Curio and Relic' license. I have one and they are great. Much of what I like to shoot are old military rifles, pretty rifles with blued metal barrels and hand-oiled wooden stocks, just like God intended them to be. Anything from the WWI or WWII era appeals to me. If a firearm (pistol or long arm) is on the BATF Curio & Relic list Download here (http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/) it can be sold between two FFL-03 holders in any state, shipped directly between them. Basically the gun has to be manufactured more than 50 years prior (no modern repros), but check the list to be sure.

I've gotten a couple of Swiss K-31s, a Persian Mauser, a couple of Springfield 1903 rifles, an M1 Garand and a Nazi P38 this way. Cuts out the hassles and cost of FFL-01 (full dealer license) middlemen. I get private sale lists sent only to FFL-01 dealers and FFL-03 holders that include surplus newer stuff, but for that I still have to go to an FFL-01 to process the transfer. I got a German police surplus Sig P5 that way. You could get one too, if they post publicly on the web or in Shotgun News or something.

Another reason to get an FFL-03 is you get discounts from outfits like Midway, Brownells, and many ammo and reloading component dealers, and even from gun makers like Rock River Arms. The $45 cost of the license for five year term pays for itself pretty quickly. I can get a high-end RRA rifle at enough of a discount to make it worth my while even after paying my local dealer $50 to process it for me. The dealer doesn't mind because he didn't have to stock the gun in inventory, didn't have to lure me in for a sales guy to waste time with, etcetera. I call him up, say RRA is shipping them a rifle for me (on their FFL, not mine, mine only gets me dealer pricing), they call me when it arrives and pocket $50 for ten minutes of NICS check and paperwork. I get a $100-200 gross discount which is a net $50-150 after transfer costs. Win, win, win for all involved.

Well, now you know everything you wanted to know about firearms transfers but didn't give a shit enough to ask! And I stayed out of the wifey's hair for another half hour, increasing my chances of getting laid tonight by not irritating her by 2-3%. :mrgreen:

[Redneck Rebel]

Thought I'd give you a more detailed answer, Red. Federal Firearms transfer laws are standardized (of course) and set the minimum standards, but states may be more restrictive. For example, Federal firearms laws allow for face-to-face (FTF) transfers between residents of the same state as long as both are over 18 years of age and the seller has no reason to believe the buyer has a criminal record or is making a straw purchase. I live in PA however, and PA law says we cannot sell pistols FTF in PA even though Federal law allows for it. In PA, I can sell a long gun (rifle or shotty) FTF but not a pistol. Private pistols sales in PA have to take place at a licensed dealer or at a county sherrif's office where a National Instant Background Check System (NICS) (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics.htm) call will be made on the buyer and paperwork is completed.

Other states may require ALL sales of any firearm be done at a licensed dealer, or NO sales need be done at a licensed dealer as long as they meet the federal requirement. Any guns shipped so that they are not sold FTF by residents of the same state must go through a dealer.

So, if you go on an online gun store site like the one for Bud's Guns in Kentucky, they will ship it to a licensed dealer in your area where you go pick it up and get processed. The seller need not be a dealer, however. According to Federal laws I can sell you one of my guns, rifle, shotgun or pistol, but the onus is on me to find a licensed dealer in your area to ship it to. I cannot ship it to you directly, that's a federal felony. So say you see a gun posted by me on GunBroker and want to buy it. We arrange payment and terms between us. You tell me where you want to pick it up. I'll demand it be a stocking gun dealer with a nice website where I can see photos of their gun counter and see their address, and I'll coordinate shipping it to them on the phone and they'll call you when it arrives. If you want it sent to a pawn shop or small dealer without a website I can check, I am going to require they FAX me a signed copy of their FFL (federal firearms license) because it is incumbent on me, the seller, to ensure this sale is legal. The license has the address for the place of business, and I need to ship it there and to no other address. You go in for the checks and processing and get the gun.

The charge for the dealer to do this for you varies from a low of about $20 (the NICS costs $5 and they may charge that separately) to a high of about $50. Years ago, I did this a lot, buying and selling used guns and my favorite site, GunsAmerica.com used to have a listing of a gazillion dealers who would let me ship to them directly and costs were fairly standard at $20-25. Lately the BATF has been harrassing the shit out of dealers and the number of dealers who will do this has pretty much dried up, or at least dwindled to a small fraction of what it used to be, and costs have gone up to discourage traffic. So now most dealers want the seller to go to an FFL holder near them and ship through them. Technically I'm selling it to a local dealer who logs it onto their BATF record book, then they sell it to the dealer on the other end who logs it in from the first dealer and out to you. Although not necessary, this saves a lot of BATF bullshit and headaches. The BATF is simply trying to reduce the amount of private sales, and this effectively adds another $20-50 on the sellers end to the total transaction which often fucks the ecnomic justification for the sale in the first place as most private used gun sales are between $400-1,000. Adds from a low of 2% to a high of 12.5% to the transaction. If you like selling guns almost as a hobby, like I do, it pays to find a local dealer to do business with who will accept shipments from private sellers for you.

A couple of other wrinkles -- you know me, the TLDR king! :rolleyes:

About the "Gunshow Loophole". There isn't one. All federal and local laws apply at gunshows. For instance in PA, I have bought handguns at shows, and it has to be done through an FFL holder with all the paperwork and the NICS check. What gun shows do is bring a lot of folks together who can do legal FTF sales, so you'll see guys walking around with slung rifles with little flags stuck in the barrel saying "For Sale". Without shows, if I advertised a rifle for sale to a PA resident, we might have to drive across half the state to meet to make it legal. So anti-gunners hate shows because it facilitates gun transfers and they want to do all they can to limit that. Bear in mind they only limit folks who are conducting legal activity, the gang-banger who wants a gun doesn't go to dealers or gunshows, they traffic in stolen guns (or use a straw purchaser, which is also illegal). The idea that restrictions on legal gun sales can restrict criminal use of guns is childish fantasy, but the anti-gunners are either childish or have other agendas so they hate gun shows. Most non-shooters are very gullible so the anti-gunners repeatedly bleat about the "Gun Show Loophole" and non-shooters come to believe it is true, so the tactics work.

Another wrinkle is there is a second class of FFL, called the FFL-03 or 'Curio and Relic' license. I have one and they are great. Much of what I like to shoot are old military rifles, pretty rifles with blued metal barrels and hand-oiled wooden stocks, just like God intended them to be. Anything from the WWI or WWII era appeals to me. If a firearm (pistol or long arm) is on the BATF Curio & Relic list Download here (http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/) it can be sold between two FFL-03 holders in any state, shipped directly between them. Basically the gun has to be manufactured more than 50 years prior (no modern repros), but check the list to be sure.

I've gotten a couple of Swiss K-31s, a Persian Mauser, a couple of Springfield 1903 rifles, an M1 Garand and a Nazi P38 this way. Cuts out the hassles and cost of FFL-01 (full dealer license) middlemen. I get private sale lists sent only to FFL-01 dealers and FFL-03 holders that include surplus newer stuff, but for that I still have to go to an FFL-01 to process the transfer. I got a German police surplus Sig P5 that way. You could get one too, if they post publicly on the web or in Shotgun News or something.

Another reason to get an FFL-03 is you get discounts from outfits like Midway, Brownells, and many ammo and reloading component dealers, and even from gun makers like Rock River Arms. The $45 cost of the license for five year term pays for itself pretty quickly. I can get a high-end RRA rifle at enough of a discount to make it worth my while even after paying my local dealer $50 to process it for me. The dealer doesn't mind because he didn't have to stock the gun in inventory, didn't have to lure me in for a sales guy to waste time with, etcetera. I call him up, say RRA is shipping them a rifle for me (on their FFL, not mine, mine only gets me dealer pricing), they call me when it arrives and pocket $50 for ten minutes of NICS check and paperwork. I get a $100-200 gross discount which is a net $50-150 after transfer costs. Win, win, win for all involved.

Well, now you know everything you wanted to know about firearms transfers but didn't give a shit enough to ask! And I stayed out of the wifey's hair for another half hour, increasing my chances of getting laid tonight by not irritating her by 2-3%. :mrgreen:


Damn.... that's much more helpful than the confusing BS posted on the BATF's website.

[JCinPA]

Stuff I've gotten with my FFL-03

Late WWII manufacture Walther P38, standard issue 9mm for German Army.

http://www.easevents.com/pdacamp09/web2/alexander/Walther-pistol.jpg


Swiss K31, 7.5x55mm standard issue to Swiss Army for much of the last century. I have two, will sell one later, but they are still too plentiful to have appreciated much.

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/k31.jpg

It has a really cool straight-pull rotary bolt geeks like me appreciate.

http://members.cox.net/swissshooter/images/K31boltdiagram.jpg

Remington made Springfield 1903-A1

http://www.bootsandsabers.com/images/uploads/m1903a1.jpg

Smith Corona made Springfield 1903-A3

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb240/TheJoker666_2007/SmithCorona1903A3.jpg


A Harrington & Richardson 1954 M1 Garand

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/DawgFvr/M1%20Garand/Garand.jpg


A Persian Mauser . . . BRNO made, 1938 I think.

http://www.aliparsa.com/brno/boland.jpg


And this one required me to get it through an FFL-01, but I was made aware of it because of my FFL-03. Just makes it easier to find out about this stuff, FFL-03 not really required. No Pachmayr grips on mine, but I might get them

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww343/parker770/203.jpg

[JCinPA]

Damn.... that's much more helpful than the confusing BS posted on the BATF's website.


Well, it's nice to know SOMEBODY appreciates my public service efforts! ;)

You're welcome.

[Redneck Rebel]

Stuff I've gotten with my FFL-03

Late WWII manufacture Walther P38, standard issue 9mm for German Army.

http://www.easevents.com/pdacamp09/web2/alexander/Walther-pistol.jpg




That better not be mine! I'm gonna have to go to my uncles and make him show me he still has it.

Yours didn't happen to come with a brown leather holster w/ a Nazi iron eagle design on the flap and a spare clip in a mag holder on the side of the holster did it?

[JCinPA]

Yours didn't happen to come with a brown leather holster w/ a Nazi iron eagle design on the flap and a spare clip in a mag holder on the side of the holster did it?

Shit no, I wish! Just the gun in a plain white cardboard box.

[Redneck Rebel]

Shit no, I wish! Just the gun in a plain white cardboard box.

LOL My grandfather was 102nd Infantry Co. Fox Headquarters company runner.
He never talked about the war, not even with his drinking buddys at the VFW. so's we've got no idea where or how he came into possession of the Walther. After he died in Apr. 2000 my grandmother found it in a cigar box on a shelf in the closet.

[MsprinM]

I have fired my grandfather's war prize walther p38, loved it. HE was dead before i was born so dont know the story about how he got it. Dont know where it went after dad died.

[j p frog]

Not sure if this is allowed here but how about I post a link to another forum where firearm sales are allowed:

DPMS A2 HB carbine- DFW FTF - AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=782082)

Regards,

Wayne

click link for new price!

has this been sold?

[Wedge Rock]

has this been sold?

Bumped for a price cut and shipping option on AR15.com four days ago. Sounds like it probably still available.

[Wedge Rock]

Hey, if a website says I need a Curio & Relic license or a FFL, are they not willing to sell to the public, or is that just another way of saying "if you want it, you gotta have it shipped to an FFL?"

FIREARM PURCHASING REQUIREMENTS

It is Required for you to have a copy of your signed Federal Firearms License, or Collector of Curio & Relics License on file with us BEFORE ordering Firearms from this Website. It is also required to have a copy of any local or state licenses required for a firearm purchase to be on file. All orders placed without, or prior to, an signed copy of the Federal Firearms License (or other necessary licensing) on file will be Deleted without notice. Please call or email us referencing your Zip code and Name as it appears on your FFL, to verify a current copy is on file.

[Doctor_XXX]

Hey, if a website says I need a Curio & Relic license or a FFL, are they not willing to sell to the public
This, in my limited experience.

[Seven©]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/DawgFvr/M1%20Garand/Garand.jpg

If for some reason you ever decide to sell that, lmk.

[j p frog]

dang and I have been asking him for over a year to hook me up with a guy he knows who collects garands so I can get a shooter grade....I never want museum quality, my weapons are all shooters! and so far...he keeps forgetting...he has half-timers disease I guess!

[JCinPA]

I can't track that guy down, JP. He's dropped off the radar. I'll give it another shot.

[j p frog]

ty sir!

[JCinPA]

That is a photo I snagged off the web, Seven, I wanted to get shots of what we were shooting up fast and was too busy to shoot/post.

However, mine is almost as nice. Stock is a little darker. It is a "correct grade" Harrington & Richardson, 1954 manufacture, never saw battle. It is sahweet!