Electrical help needed

[waymac]

Hey guys,

not sure what the heck is going on or if I am just braindead today...

I am wiring up a couple pot lights in a basement, fed from a junction box I just put in...

so it goes like this...

Power goes into box where I feed an outlet and run a wire to a switch on the wall then another wire from the switch to the ceiling(see attached drawing to get a glimpse of what I am talking about... So I am using 14/2 residential wire. connected all my black together, all my white and my grounds(this was all working with the plug, it's when I add the lights and switch that it isn't working out) So out of my box I run a fresh 14/2 wire to a switch and then another 14/2 to my first light. in the switch I have my black wires split and my whites connected with a murret and it's grounded. When I hit the breaker it keeps popping and for the life of me I can't wrap my head around why?

I have seen some diagrams that only use one wire into the switch and then jumper to the light but my light fixture is a ways away from the junction box so I am using a second wire run. This is getting confusing as I write it up for ya, hopefully the attached diagram will make more sense... Each line going into the boxes and lights is equal to a wire, so there are 2 going in each direction but 4 in the switch box.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/853/wiring.th.gif (http://img79.imageshack.us/i/wiring.gif/)

Thanks for any help, gotta head to work now but will check back later.

thanks

waymac

[Quads]

disconnect the outlet
test breaker
disconnect the last light on the chair
test breaker
disconnect the second light on chair
test breaker
disconnect both light, open switch / test breaker / close switch / test breaker

My guess is the switch is the issue in that you have cross wired it.

[Irish]

I'm confused - why do you have 2 - 14/2 wires going to the outlet and the switch, are each of these on a different circuit?

[huge1s]

I'm confused - why do you have 2 - 14/2 wires going to the outlet and the switch, are each of these on a different circuit?

Same here. You could also simplify and run (on Romex, not two) from Main to outlet, outlet to switch, switch to light, light to light (instead of splitting at the main). Or is the switch a double switch and supposed to control each light independently?

[waymac]

to outlet I have one black wire and one white wire, so 1 14/2 wire going in...

to switch I have 1 black wire and 1 white wire going in and one black and one white going out. Not sure how else to run it.

the lights aren't even connected to the circuit yet so I know they are the problem, when I disconnect that wire run from the junction box it juices fine, it's only when connected that it pops.

[waymac]

Same here. You could also simplify and run (on Romex, not two) from Main to outlet, outlet to switch, switch to light, light to light (instead of splitting at the main). Or is the switch a double switch and supposed to control each light independently?

No, the outlet has already been buried under the drywall and is insulated as it's a basement wall.

It is also just a regular switch controlling both pots at the same time. This is where I am confused, since it's a separate switch for separate lights, why is it popping when I am running right from my source? It's driving me bonkers.

waymac

[km630]

If I read your problem correctly, you are running a complete circuit to the switch. Don't do that. You only need to run half a circuit to the switch. The light will complete the circuit back to the breaker.

So, remove the white wires from the switch, leaving only the black wires attached. Then disconnect light #1 from the black wire from the outlet. Disconnect the black wire from light #1 from one of the switch wires. Connect those two black wires together. You should be left with the following:

White wires from outlet to light #1, white wire from light #1 to to light #2.

Black wire from outlet to switch (usually by connecting to the black wire from the outlet to the switch black wire where light #1 is -- but not connecting to the light) -- making a connection between the outlet and the switch. Then the other black wire from the switch to light #1, and black wire from light #1 to black wire for light #2.

[Irish]

to outlet I have one black wire and one white wire, so 1 14/2 wire going in...

to switch I have 1 black wire and 1 white wire going in and one black and one white going out. Not sure how else to run it.

the lights aren't even connected to the circuit yet so I know they are the problem, when I disconnect that wire run from the junction box it juices fine, it's only when connected that it pops.

OK, that makes more sense. Is there just one switch for both lights, or are they controlled by separate switches? If the former, it should look like this masterpiece artwork:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd106/irishpenguin75/ELECT.jpg

Black Line = black wire
Blue Line = white wire
Small Red circles = wire nuts for splices

EDIT: note I didn't include any of the grounds for clarity, but you need those too.

[huge1s]

If I read your problem correctly, you are running a complete circuit to the switch. Don't do that. You only need to run half a circuit to the switch. The light will complete the circuit back to the breaker.

So, remove the white wires from the switch, leaving only the black wires attached. Then disconnect light #1 from the black wire from the outlet. Disconnect the black wire from light #1 from one of the switch wires. Connect those two black wires together. You should be left with the following:

White wires from outlet to light #1, white wire from light #1 to to light #2.

Black wire from outlet to switch (usually by connecting to the black wire from the outlet to the switch black wire where light #1 is -- but not connecting to the light) -- making a connection between the outlet and the switch. Then the other black wire from the switch to light #1, and black wire from light #1 to black wire for light #2.

good catch, i didn't even pick up on the fact he had the whites connected to the switch as well. I bet this solves it.

[Doctor_XXX]

If I read your problem correctly, you are running a complete circuit to the switch. Don't do that. You only need to run half a circuit to the switch. The light will complete the circuit back to the breaker.

I think you are right. The switch should open/close ONE side of the circuit. The other side should go directly to the light(s)/outlet(s).

[waymac]

the white wires at the switch were spliced together, the black ones were in the switch just like the diagram that Irish did... that was how my original configuration was when it kept popping....

[waymac]

what if the ends are not connected to the lights yet? would that make it all pop? (if the ends are dead and the circuit isn't complete it should just be no power right? I wire it like the diagram that irish did but without connecting the lights yet and it pops)

[Doctor_XXX]

You only have ONE (black) wire in/out to the switch? You are inserting the switch into the middle of the black wire ONLY...and the ends of the circuit (white & black) are completely open?

[Irish]

what if the ends are not connected to the lights yet? would that make it all pop? (if the ends are dead and the circuit isn't complete it should just be no power right? I wire it like the diagram that irish did but without connecting the lights yet and it pops)

As long as the wires aren't touching anything (i.e. you have a wire nut or something on the end of each wire), that wouldn't cause the short.

I'd start the trouble-shooting here:

-Turn off the power, disconnect the black wire going to the switch. Turn the power back on and verify the breaker doesn't cut out and that you have power coming from that wire.

-Make sure the switch connections are tight and not touching each other. If you have a continuity tester, test to make sure the switch isn't broken.

Then proceed down the circuit, disconnect/connecting to make sure you're getting juice at each point.

[km630]

what if the ends are not connected to the lights yet? would that make it all pop? (if the ends are dead and the circuit isn't complete it should just be no power right? I wire it like the diagram that irish did but without connecting the lights yet and it pops)

Hold on. You have no complete circuit -- meaning the black wires go to the switch, but the white wires do not, and you are still having a problem?

If so, theyn you are shorting out someplace -- either the switch itself -- which would be rare unless you have either metal conduit or your wires crossed -- or you have a short between the panel box and the switch. To find out where, back track -- disconnecting from the end of the circuit backwards. Disconnect light #2, test, light #1, test, and switch, test. You should then know at least where the problem is.

Good luck.

[Quads]

See post 2.

[Quads]

In the most simple terms, you want the circuit to look like this:
http://www.pcpotato.com/uploader/files/1/curcuit.jpg

Red being white
Black being black.
Green / Copper not shown for obvious reasons.

[waymac]

thanks everyone, I am gonna head back to my father in laws this morning and do a backtrack of the circuit because the way everyone is describing, is the way I am wired... the black goes to the switch and the whites are spliced together straight through the switch box.

waymac

[waymac]

Well Guys, I finally figured it out and you're not gonna believe this! Okay so here goes...

I was sure I wired it all right, especially after all your help here as everyone basically said to wire it the way I already had.

My Father In law wanted to help so I had him tighten down all the screws on the junction box after I wired it all... Turns out he tightened the one side soooooo hard that it squashed the wire and the coating had come off it in one pinhole of a spot. The spot was touching the side of the junction box shorting out the whole circuit.

Once I replaced that wire and tightened it down to the proper level.... voila, light city!

Thanks for all your help here, it's great to know when you are having a problem that so many come so fast to help you out. If it hadn't have been for everyone here I may not have backtracked the circuit to find the problem, so thanks guys...

Waymac

[km630]

Pinched wires are a bitch to find most of the time. But, I am somewhat surprsed you guys did not see the sparks or smell something burning.

Glad you got the problem resolved.

[waymac]

Pinched wires are a bitch to find most of the time. But, I am somewhat surprsed you guys did not see the sparks or smell something burning.

Glad you got the problem resolved.

there was no smoke or sparks, that's why it took so darned long to find it, just glad it's over now and it's all good.

waymac